From: scribb1e	Date: November 12th, 2008 03:16 pm (UTC)		(Link)

No, not elaborate, but hard to eat on trays on your laps. The gravy would go everywhere.

	From: robhu	Date: November 12th, 2008 04:35 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Have you no balance? :)

Perhaps trays with built in spirit levels would be a good idea? :)

	From: aiwendel	Date: November 12th, 2008 05:09 pm (UTC)		(Link)

cushion instead of tray works (or maybe under tray?)

	From: toothycat	Date: November 12th, 2008 03:27 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Depends. If you carve the joint in the kitchen beforehand, that's casual. If you bring it out, make it part of the spread and carve in front of the guests, that's showy, whether you then eat at table or on your laps.

	From: woodpijn	Date: November 12th, 2008 03:31 pm (UTC)		(Link)

The question was meant to be about how much effort it would be for the host, rather than how showy it would look to the guests. Maybe I should edit the post to clarify that.

	From: toothycat	Date: November 12th, 2008 03:38 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Ah, right. Then that depends on what your idea of effort is. A simple roast of the sort you describe takes less actual time and work overall than many stews / pasta dishes, but takes several hours in the stove (hence needs advance planning), creates more washing-up (because of all the separate dishes) and needs more preparation between being ready and being eaten (laying out, carving etc) - all of which are potential sources of stress, and stress is effort.

That said, roasts can get very elaborate in themselves - lots of different fresh and steamed veg, sauces, stuffing, bacon/garlic/butter/herbs on top, different kinds of roast veg (squash, parsnips)...

	From: robhu	Date: November 12th, 2008 04:32 pm (UTC)		(Link)

The question is inspired by me cooking for woodpijn. How would you answer this question?

	From: toothycat	Date: November 12th, 2008 04:36 pm (UTC)		(Link)

The result can still be showy; but if "elaborate" is defined as "effortful", it's not elaborate.

From: cartesiandaemon	Date: November 12th, 2008 04:41 pm (UTC)		(Link)

It sounds like the elaboration depends on (1) how fancy are the trimmings around it and (2) how much the host values organisation vs time :)

	From: robhu	Date: November 12th, 2008 04:45 pm (UTC)		(Link)

The question originated from discussion between myself and woodpijn by email.

woodpijn and alextfish are coming over to mine tomorrow. woodpijn told me not to cook anything elaborate. I assume that this is because of me recovering. For that reason I assume that she doesn't want me to do anything 'effortful' rather than wanting to prevent me doing something that 'looks fancy' (but requires no effort).

	From: woodpijn	Date: November 12th, 2008 04:49 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Exactly, I do. But I still can't get my head around a roast not being effortful.

	From: robhu	Date: November 12th, 2008 04:52 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I don't understand why you can't.

Apart from the gravy it all goes in the oven and needs no preparation at all (it just comes out of bags or boxes).

Obviously powder based gravy requires almost no effort.

I don't consider remembering to put something in the oven after x minutes to increase the amount of effort either.

What it is that makes it effortful to you?

I mean, if I cooked you fish fingers, chips, and beans, that would require an equivalent amount of effort. The fish fingers and chips go in the oven at different times, and the beans result in 1 pan being used. You wouldn't consider that meal effortful would you?

	From: toothycat	Date: November 12th, 2008 05:04 pm (UTC)		(Link)

It sounds like this discussion has involved more stress / effort than the roast will ;)

	From: robhu	Date: November 12th, 2008 05:06 pm (UTC)		(Link)

They're both zero stress :-)

The discussion (which spanned several emails) that predates this post amuses me because I had no intention of cooking a roast, and do not have the right things in house to do so.

I probably will cook one now though...

	From: woodpijn	Date: November 12th, 2008 05:07 pm (UTC)		(Link)

You wouldn't consider that meal effortful would you?
In the general case, no, although for someone recovering from surgery maybe.

I guess you're right about the roast - I guess it's just that my concept of what a roast is pre-dates all these prepared things in their own foil oven trays being available.

	From: robhu	Date: November 12th, 2008 05:09 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I am tempted to cook the most elaborate and effortful meal I've ever made now (just because of my contrary nature). But I am also extremely lazy, so I'm sure I'll make something that is near zero effort.

	From: woodpijn	Date: November 12th, 2008 05:14 pm (UTC)		(Link)

:P

Good.

	From: robhu	Date: November 12th, 2008 04:53 pm (UTC)		(Link)

	From: robhu	Date: November 12th, 2008 04:29 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I want you to do another poll to accurately reflect what I would actually do:

The question should be:

A friend wants to cook a roast dinner. Their plan is to take the meat they bought from the supermarket out of it's packaging (but leave it in the roasting tray it comes in), put it in the oven, then a few hours later take the box of mixed vegetables (already in supermarket provided roasting tray) out of the fridge and put those in the oven. Thirty minutes later they'll boil some water, add gravy mixture, plate everything up, and serve. Is this elaborate for the host?

As Sergei said - roasts can be elaborate, but a roast like the one outlined here takes virtually no effort and hardly any washing up (I'm not sure if it's still 'elaborate', but I only care about effort/washing up).

Arguably a roast like this takes less washing up than most things I could cook because the vegetables and meat are already in disposable roasting trays, so all that I have to wash up (other than the plates and cutlery) is 1 pan and 1 gravy boat thing. Cooking sausages for Alex would mean a tray would have to be cleaned too.

If you're worried about the washing up then you can do it!

	From: robhu	Date: November 12th, 2008 04:31 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Actually there is still one tray involved as the roast potatoes (that I'd get out of a bag) need one to go on (I could get those in a disposable tray, but I've never been quite that lazy).


I have cooked you roasts that require more effort (e.g. if I make the mashed potatoes or cook a full chicken or something), but in the last 9 months you've known me the effort I've put in to a meal I cook you has decreased by about 70%.

	From: alextfish	Date: November 12th, 2008 06:35 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Excellent - I'm glad to hear that. It's fun to cook something big for each other as an occasional thing, but for the normal friendly evenings over we just want to eat and chat, and don't want you exhausted or stressed over lots to do in the kitchen. So I'm glad of this statistic.

	From: robhu	Date: November 12th, 2008 06:36 pm (UTC)		(Link)

But doing such cooking makes me happy.

From: (Anonymous)	Date: November 13th, 2008 09:31 am (UTC)		(Link)

That's not a roast, though. That's a TV dinner.

That the picture on the packet happens to look like a roast doesn't make it an actual roast.

S.

	From: woodpijn	Date: November 13th, 2008 09:33 am (UTC)		(Link)

Says Mr Why-would-you-bother-cooking-a-pasta-sauce-from-scratch.

From: (Anonymous)	Date: November 13th, 2008 09:45 am (UTC)		(Link)

Pasta schmasta. Roasts are real food.

S.

	From: aiwendel	Date: November 12th, 2008 05:13 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I think it can be relatively low effort. Ok you need time, and you need to get the timing right, and roast potatoes can either be shoved in, or boiled first which is extra faff, so it won't be as low effort as pasta and a packet of sauce, but it is a lot less effort than a lot of other dishes.

It has the advantage that most things can be put in the oven well before anyone arrives, which helps. though gravy later, if wanted makes a bit more effort.

...
It depends if the person cooking it has done it a millions times before and thus finds it easy, or not...

	From: robhu	Date: November 12th, 2008 05:14 pm (UTC)		(Link)

What are you thinking of in terms of gravy? Packet gravy + water, or something better?

	From: robert_jones	Date: November 14th, 2008 01:02 am (UTC)		(Link)

Well, that poll seems to have failed spectacularly to resolve the issue!

	From: robhu	Date: November 14th, 2008 01:02 am (UTC)		(Link)

Goodness me, you're right.